Discussion Forums - Questions about SwapaCD

I was wondering how this wish list order worked. Previously I was 1 of 6. I noticed today I went to 2 of 6. Am I confused or did someone just in front of me. Ive seen this on another one also.

Yes and yes.  It is easy to be confused about the wish list because although the concept is very simple, its workings is somewhat complicated.  It is explained if you click on the first link here:

http://www.swapacd.com/help/search.php?terms=how+the+wish+list+works

Basically, the rank (the position a cd has on your wishlist) matters.  For example, if the cd you are wishing for is in position 10 on YOUR wishlist and you are 1 of 6 wishing for that cd, and I have that same cd in position 1 on MY wishlist and I am 2 of 6.  Because the cd is higher on my wishlist than it is on yours I will "gain ground" on you and eventually pass you.  How fast that happens depends on the difference between positions on YOUR wishlist and MY wishlist - if the cd is on position 133 on your list and it is on position 1 on mine I will gain ground quicker.  Time also matters.

If you are 1 of 6 for a cd and you have that cd on the top of your wishlist then (I think) nobody can pass you.

..Lars, an elegant explanation.  Also -- whether or not you wish for the art matters.  You'll cut straight to the front of the line is someone posts a copy of a wishlisted item as disc-only and you are willing to take it.

Sounds like I better move that cd up to the top of the list

 Thanks for the info

>Also -- whether or not you wish for the art matters

I don't think it affects your position in the line.  However:

>You'll cut straight to the front of the line is someone posts a copy of a wishlisted item as disc-only and you are willing to take it.

That is true - if the people ahead of you in the line have it wishlisted "with covers" and you have it wishlisted as "cd only" you may get it first (if someone posts the cd without the covers).

>Sounds like I better move that cd up to the top of the list.

And you may very well pass the other member again and re-gain your number uno position.  If you click on the "Graph" button while viewing your wishlist you can see how others have the cd positoned on their wishlist and what your standing is compared to them.

John, please let us know if your position improved after you moved that CD to the top of your list.

>If you are 1 of 6 for a cd and you have that cd on the top of your wishlist then (I think) nobody can pass you.

And I just remembered that is not true... there is at least one case where it can happen (and I can think of another one as well).

I have a cd on top of my wishlist and have had it there for quite a while.  There are two people wishing for that cd and I am "1 of 2".  The other person has it at position 2 on their wishlist.  So, since I am at number 1 and I have the cd in the first position, nobody should be able to pass me.  But, every now and then I get bumped down to "2 of 3".  What the??  And then a few days later, I am back to "1 of 2".  I *think*, but am not sure, the reason is that when someone puts an item on their wishlist on hold it may temporarily disappear from the list - I *think* the cd holds its position in line, earns its brownie points etc., but is not visible in the graph.  And when that person removes the hold, the cd re-appears again in its position.

Someone may also go on vacation and put their entire account on hold.  That will pull them from being visible, but put them back when they un-hold the account.

I noticed that I have received some discs when I had not been first in line on a recent inspection. I'm assuming that whoever was in line in front of me must have been out of credits.

If someone is out of credits, do they show up within the position? In other words, do all 22 people wishing for "Sticky Fingers" have a credit to pay for it? This would get particularly tricky with multi-disc sets...

Someone in front of you on line might also have it on 48 hour hold and either never responded or decided they didn't want the CD anymore.  So, #2 would jump up to get their chance, and so on...

I am in Position #1 on the title I have ranked #1.  However, it says that my estimated position in two weeks is #2.

How can somebody leapfrog me if I have it ranked #1???

William N.

...is your wish for all art only?  Others in line may be happy to just disc-only.  My guess.

Ona whim, I dropped the title down a few notches, then restored it to #1.  After this shuffle, it is now estimated #1 after two weeks.

I shipped a CD but never credit for it seem it, I shipped then it look it was cancel after it was mailed.  But the received how do I get credit for CD?

i've been round and round with this with this issue with the Swapa CD "team".many times basically, my opinion is this is a dishonest policy in which members are given the impression that they are in "order" when they add something to their wish list -- wish is simply not true.  and i was told in no uncertain terms that newer members are given precendent to keep them on board.  so basically, you may be listed as number 3 in "position" for a given CD, but that doesn't mean you will be given a CD after it comes up 3 times (far from it). your ranking is constantly being juggled around to give newer members the impression that they will continue to get CDs they want. also, just because you dont see your position moving backwards doesnt; mean that it is moving up in line.  it may soimply be standing still even as the CD is awarded to other members.  i have had many. many CDs simply stay at the same ranking (1), and some of them i know i have seen come "up" for distribution.

i haven't received any CDs on my list for many months now, even though many have been at number one.  frankly, i'm surprised more people haven't complained about this -- or maybe their posts are being removed.

the numeric ranking has no value -- it is constantly at the mercy of some computer algorithm designed to give certain members precedent.  if your "rank" is 3, you may actually get the CD after 14 copies become availlale -- or maybe never at all.

Thanks Kevin,

You finally clarified the mystery of why I have been number one on the wishlist since one year and simply don't get the CD.  It is hard to believe that no one ever posts Esparanza Spalding.

If what you say is true, I will never get the CD, because there are always newer members. How unfair!!!!!

Angie

"i've been round and round with this with this issue with the Swapa CD "team".many times basically, my opinion is this is a dishonest policy in which members are given the impression that they are in "order" when they add something to their wish list -- wish is simply not true."

Please post direct quotes from whomever you spoke to or wrote to. It is possible to to keep losing out on a #1 position CD if you need all inserts and someone else isn't so picky. It is possible to lose out more than two times on a #3 position CD if you don't have it ranked #1 and newbies do.

But you seem to be saying that something else is going on, too. Are you really?

Kevin you are incorrect. There is no benefit given to new members. ALL members earn the exact same point count for the exact same positions. Your #1 earns the same points an the newmems#1 and their #50 earns the same as your #50. A newmem gets one CD per slot just like all of the existing members. Every single member earns wish list points in the exact same manner.

The benefit that newmems get is that the existing members do not get to dogpile into all the wishlist lines and get everything before the newmems like the FIFO lines are set up on the PBS site because each member here gets to but only one thing in each ranking spot on their wish list, and the lower an item is ranked the less points it earns so a member could get passed on a low ranked item. The newmems aren't given any more benefit from the system, but they are at least given a chance to get something from their wish list in a reasonable time.

If you rank something #1, no one will pass you to the #1 spot. Someone who was always ahead of you could reappear from a Hold or someone  who requested less insert stuff could get an offer before you, but no one will ever pass you for your #1 item. Your #2 will be hard to pass, only someone with it in #1 will pass you and they will need to have joined close to you or it will take a little while. The farther out your ranking goes and the higher the ranking of the other member, the higher the chance of your wish being passed, but no member earns points at any rate better than any other member with a CD in any specific ranking position so I really doubt that someone from the site told you that newmems are given any kind of precedent. In fact, with the wish list structure here they usually stress that the longer you are in a wish list line the harder it gets to pass you because you've accumulated a lot of points.

Melanie, you basically quoted the FAQ regarding positions, but I've seen some anomolies that suggest something else is at work.  Why would an estimated position in two weeks improve if you move something from say #5 down in rank to #10, and then back up to #5... I've seen it happen, and it cannot be explained by the FAQ.  Also, when a shipper defaults, and my request goes to #1, sometimes I'm not on the top of the pecking order after that happens, what gives?

Instead of posting a general example, they should post the exact algorithm used to generate rankings.  Transparency on the system would help get rid of the false claims floating around. 

MarcB, I agree with the misunderstanding your 2nd paragraph describes. But your first paragraph seems mathematically impossible.

"Well ... not necessarily. This could happen: Amy puts a CD on her wish list, ranked #1, then drops it down a few ranks. Awhile later, Bobby puts it on his list, ranked #1, and passes Amy to be the first person in line. Amy sees that someone has passed her, and moves it back to #1. Amy could then pass Bobby in line again, even though he was first in line and ranking the CD #1, because she had more points built up than he did."

Note that once Bobby has passed Amy to become first in line for that CD (position 1 out of 2), she can't catch up. This is because he has accumulated more points, and has placed his wish at rank 1. The best Amy can do is move her wish to rank 1 so as not to fall any further behind.

Melanie, you basically quoted the FAQ regarding positions, but I've seen some anomolies that suggest something else is at work.  Why would an estimated position in two weeks improve if you move something from say #5 down in rank to #10, and then back up to #5... I've seen it happen, and it cannot be explained by the FAQ.  - The other people can be moving things around at the same time as you. Your position is not only dependant on what you are doing, but also what others are doing. I have also seen lags in the system to correct positions shifting. I have contacted the site about something in my #1 position saying I would drop to #2 in 2 weeks and when they looked at it, they said it was because the other member was moving things around. When I pointed out that I never moved it out of #1 so there should be no way I should be able to lose #1, they looked at it again and agreed, but said the system just needed time to adjust and it was corrected later.

Also, when a shipper defaults, and my request goes to #1, sometimes I'm not on the top of the pecking order after that happens, what gives? - The most common answer to this is that you were not on the top of the pecking order when you got the offer. Someone in front of you had something go lost, arrive damaged, on hold, requesting more inserts etc. You are always returned to your previous place in the line, that doesn't always mean #1.

Instead of posting a general example, they should post the exact algorithm used to generate rankings.  Transparency on the system would help get rid of the false claims floating around.  - They have posted the algorithms that would be used on the paperback site if it gets implemented there, with the points earned in each position. Though the point count may not be exactly the same, the algorithm would the same be I believe. The big thing was that the points dropped off quickly, once you got past #10, the points were pretty low so those top 10 spots were important rankings.

I know my knowledge comes mainly from the other site, but we have discussed this at great lengths there because they have wanted to implement this WL system over there for a couple of years now. The maturity and size of that system makes it even harder. I looked to see if I could post a link to the algorithm stuff, but it looks like they finally took down the information since the "new wish list" was not ever coming and was causing a lot of members to stress.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but the ranking system would seem to give a huge advantage to users with small wish lists.  If I have a wish list of 1000 items, it is practically impossible to rank-order them by preference.  But worse. if I'm competing with someone who only has 10 items in their wishlist, then on average, they will outrank me 99% of the time.  (Only 1% of my CDs can be in the 1-10 range, but 100% of theirs are.)  Is this correct?