Discussion Forums - Questions about SwapaCD

I've mailed a bunch of CD's before and they always were letters + the 17 cent nonmachineable charge.

Today I went to mail 3 cds and they tried to charge me $1.30 each. I told her this wasn't right. I packaged them between 2 thin pieces of cardboard (cereal box) in the swapacd wrapper, like I ALWAYS DO. She said they weigh more than 1 ounce (1.4oz) so they couldn't be a letter +surcharge.

She then went to get a supervisor and he told me the same thing. They gave me a copy of this chart that shows how they do postage - and it would be a letter - but then there is an arrow for "nonmachineable" since it's "rigid" and it says UNDER 1 OUNCE. Is this right??

Please help. I can't afford to do this if I have to pay $1.30 to mail each CD.

Wanted to add:

I did read the other threads. I found this chart (http://postcalc.usps.gov/PopUps/pop_up13.htm) that is almost identical to what the post office gave me - except theirs has an arrow saying "UNDER 1 OUNCE" pointing to the nonmachineable surcharge. Has anyone else heard of this??

but then there is an arrow for "nonmachineable" since it's "rigid" and it says UNDER 1 OUNCE. Is this right??

No. There is a maximum weight for first-class letters (3.3 oz or 3.5 oz, depending on which guideline you read) but I don't see a minumum weight listed.

Nonmachinable Criteria

A letter-size piece is nonmachinable if it has one or more of the following characteristics (see 601.1.4 to determine the length, height, top, and bottom of a mailpiece):

a. Has an aspect ratio (length divided by height) of less than 1.3 or more than 2.5.

b. Is polybagged, polywrapped, or enclosed in any plastic material.

c. Has clasps, strings, buttons, or similar closure devices.

d. Contains items such as pens, pencils, or loose keys or coins that cause the thickness of the mailpiece to be uneven (see 601.11.18, Odd-Shaped Items in Paper Envelopes).

e. Is too rigid (does not bend easily when subjected to a transport belt tension of 40 pounds around an 11-inch diameter turn).

f. For pieces more than 4-1/4 inches high or 6 inches long, the thickness is less than 0.009 inch.

g. Has a delivery address parallel to the shorter dimension of the mailpiece.

h. Is a self-mailer with a final folded edge perpendicular to the address if the piece is not folded and secured according to 201.3.13.1.

i. Booklet-type pieces with the bound edge (spine) along the shorter dimension of the piece or at the top, unless prepared according to 201.3.13.2.

My advice? Buy some .75¢ stamps (for those CDs that weight 2 oz or less) and mail them from a blue box.

Was the arrow added to the form? Could you tell if it was hand printed? That is just wrong! You are correct and should make a copy of the notice on the USPS web site and take it to the post office. Ask to speak to the postmaster not just a supervisor. We should not have to fight with the post office workers to get the rates that are clearly stated on their own web site!

"My advice? Buy some .75¢ stamps (for those CDs that weight 2 oz or less) and mail them from a blue box"

Then you'll have the package returned to you.

"Was the arrow added to the form? Could you tell if it was hand printed? "

It didn't look like an "official" form, more like a flow chart that someone made. Everything else on it was identical to what the website says, except that arrow.

I may just print off the one from the website & bring it next time. Although this is the first time (out of probably a dozen times) they have tried to charge more.

"Then you'll have the package returned to you."

Not necessarily. In a pinch I have mailed them before with 2 regular 41 cent stamps, and never had one returned or "postage due". I may just use stamps & do it myself now though.

"Then you'll have the package returned to you."

I have mailed all my CD's with a 75 cent stamp on them and have never had one returned to me for postage due. So far I think I have sent around 50 CD's.

Depends on how you pack them.

Mine are usualy 80something or 90something.  But I have a cardboard mailer, and slip an extra piece of cardboard in.  Adds a little bit to the weight, but as long as it's under $1 I'm happy.

Much better than the $2.13 it costs to ship a book!

Then you'll have the package returned to you.

I haven't had one returned yet, nor have they arrived postage due. When the postal rates changed I got really tired of arguing with the postal employees and even put my shelf on hold for awhile. Then I took someone's suggestion of just stamping them and bypassing the counter. It works - just be sure of the weight -  it's .92¢ (or .93¢?) if the CD weighs over 2 oz, which can easily happen with thicker artwork.

I did find on the web a document that seems to specify the under 1 ounce, it is http://www.usps.com/mailpro/2007/marapril/page17.html and is "NOTICE 123 RATEFOLD" effective May 14 2007.

This has a note (1) which looks like it only applies to under an ounce.  I think that was a mistake (I believe under an ounce used to have a surcharge before the rate changes), and I think this document was not right.

It was corrected and the "NOTICE 123 RATEFOLD" effective July 15 2007, http://pe.usps.gov/cpim/ftp/notices/not123/not123.pdf, has the note (1) specifying all weights under 3.5 ounce.

I have given up on going to the counter and I bought some 75 cent and 17 cent stamps, and now mail in the box after checking the weight myself, 75 cents if under 2 ounces, 92 cents (75 cent and 17 cent stamp) if over 2 ounces (but under 3 ounces).

I recently had an "argument" with a clerk who wanted to charge me package rate.  I "won" the argument, but only after she said "Fine, but if it breaks we aren't responsible", sure enough out of the 6 sent, so far 1 was broken.  The moral is, if you argue with the clerk you can't win.  Even if you win the postage argument, don't let them take the cds, mail them yourself from a box.

I was sending everthing for 80 cents since I started, until about a week ago when I ran out of the stamps I had specifically bought to come up to that amount of postage.  I go to the post office with a bunch of CD's I had to send and the clerk informed me she didn't think 80 cents would do it.  She weighed and measured my CD's using the little guide/chart others have alluded to in this post, and said they should have been 97 cents so now that's what I'm paying even though I had never had one returned up to that point.

There's definitely no point in arguing with a postal clerk about it - the blank indifference will just add salt to the wound.

I'm not sure if she just did not want to answer the question about the USPS making a mistake

or if it was some other problem, but below is my (frustrating) email conversation with USPS

regarding the correct postage for a 2oz rigid letter (typical for most SwapACD packaging). Read

it from the bottom up.  Some of the text does not wrap properly and ends up being displayed in

the black border, you can see it if you highlight the text.



Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Jenifer) - 10/17/2007 04:46 PM
Dear MICHAEL MORGAN,

Thank you for your reply.

Based on the information you have provided, the postage for your item will be approximately $0.75

You are welcome to estimate postage for your items by using our Postage Rates Calculator at:

http://postcalc.usps.gov/

1. Select a shape (If you need more information on shapes, click on the question marks.)
2. Input the weight for your item
3. Input the ZIP Codes™
4. Select the mailing service you intend to use
5. Choose any available extra services for the mailing

You can also find more detailed information regarding rates at the following link:

http://www.usps.com/rates/welcome.htm

If I can be of assistance to you in the future, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Thank you for choosing the United States Postal Service®.

Regards,

Jenifer K
====================================================================================================================

Customer (MICHAEL MORGAN) - 10/17/2007 03:55 PM
Jenifer,

So for a letter (not a large envelope) that weighs less than 2oz and
has a $0.17 non machinable surcharge the total would be what?

thanks,
Mike

====================================================================================================================
Response (Jenifer) - 10/17/2007 03:43 PM
Dear MICHAEL MORGAN,

Thank you for your reply.

Square items are mailable, however they don't fit well into mail processing equipment. Square mail pieces are subject to the applicable non machinable surcharge (an additional $0.17) because their length/width ratio is less than 1.3.

If I can be of assistance to you in the future, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Thank you for choosing the United States Postal Service®.

Regards,

Jenifer K
====================================================================================================================

Customer (MICHAEL MORGAN) - 10/17/2007 02:25 PM
Jenifer,

Thanks for the info but my question was regarding a CD, contained within a small non-rectangular envelope. CDs are 5" square, so it fits into the USPS's definition of a letter:

Height 3-1/2 inches 6-1/8 inches

Length 5 inches 11-1/2 inches

Thickness 0.007 inch 1/4 inch

So for a letter that is in a square envelope that is less than 2oz., does the USPS site give the correct postage amount?

thanks,
Mike

====================================================================================================================

Response (Jenifer) - 10/17/2007 02:04 PM
Dear MICHAEL MORGAN,

Thank you for your reply.

A non rectangular large envelope will be charged as if it were a First Class Mail Package.

If I can be of assistance to you in the future, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Thank you for choosing the United States Postal Service®.

Regards,

Jenifer K
====================================================================================================================

Customer (MICHAEL MORGAN) - 10/17/2007 12:40 PM
Jennifer,

Just wanted to clarify; non rectangular envelopes are considered packages?

thanks,
Mike
====================================================================================================================

Support@USPS wrote:

Response (Jenifer) - 10/17/2007 11:59 AM
Dear MICHAEL MORGAN,

Thank you for contacting us about your item that was mailed with insufficient postage.

Based on the information you have provided, the postage for your item is $1.30. Please note that First-Class Mail Package rates apply to Large Envelopes that are rigid, non rectangular, or not uniformly thick.

If I can be of assistance to you in the future, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Thank you for choosing the United States Postal Service®.

Regards,

Jenifer K
====================================================================================================================

Customer (MICHAEL MORGAN) - 10/16/2007 09:12 AM
I mailed a CD a few weeks ago. To determine the postage I used this website (usps.com). It weighed 1.7oz and was rigid (cardboard), so your site indicated that I needed $0.75. When it was received, I was informed that there was postage due; another $0.55. This seems like a mistake at the receiving post-office. What can I do if thishappens again? Is your website providing the correct postage? Is it authoritative?

Mike, you were finally given  the correct amount, according to the USPS website.   .41 for the first ounce + .17 for the additional ounce (up to and including 2.0 oz.) + .17 for the non-machinable charge = .75

You may want to print out your correspondence with USPS and take it with you on your next trip to the P.O.

I'm going to.

Stand you ground! You are in the right.

Good luck.

Des

I've actually had one returned to me. It was a single cd with just the front artwork, with the cd packed in a clamshell. I put .92 cents worth of stamps on it and dropped it in the box (inside the post office). They returned it to me stating that I need .98 cents I promptly put it back in the mail with .98 cents (with a whole new wrapper).

I've received albums that are disc only and that have just the front artwork (packed with the standard SWAP wrapping) with just a regular .41 first class stamp and it got to me ok....go figure?

Then you'll have the package returned to you.

The postage due CDs aren't always returned to the sender - I've received a few where the sender didn't put enough postage on and I've paid the difference.  My mail carrier just leaves a small envelope in my mailbox with a note on it telling me how much postage is due and also leaves the CD, so I put the change in the envelope and leave it in the mailbox the next day.  It's only happened a couple times out of nearly 250 CDs that I've received, so it isn't a big deal.

Same here Joe, I've only had one that was postage due and it was for like $.07 or something ridiculous like that.  Same thing, just a little collection envelope.

Hi

Does anyone know how much it is to mail some cds out that are in standard size jewel cases. I can't drive to the po to get it weighed and I need someone to drive me.  I think they should just tell me how much it is over the phone.  I mean I want my credits.

Melanie, it should be either $1.31 or $1.48. Unfortunately, there is no way for a postal employee to give you a price over the phone because they need the package present to weigh it. ;)

oddly, the first 4 times  Imailed cds, I was charged different RATES (it says the style of rate on the reciept).  Next time, I asked to speak to the postmaster, who, explained, it should be charged at the 2nd lowest rate, which was LARGE ENV, first class.  My PO, is a rather large one, so, I don't know their machinability poilcies, but, I can be sure, by the condition of one of the cds I recieved, it was def post marked in a machine.  SOO, if u want to be sure it gets there safely, you should opt for that no machinable option, but for me, its a chance I will take, to say the extra cash, as I see my addiction to constantly TRADE OUT my collection, to only worsen.

:))

I always end up paying about $1.30 each. Once  I got a new guy and he charged me that $0.90 rate, but according to the girls, it has to be able to bend at least 11degrees for it to count as machineable also they dont want to "machine" cds due to the magnetic and heat properties, so they are handsorted anyway. My post office has even installed a separate drop slot for blockbuster and netflix returns because it has become such a problem. I  ahve heard many times that different post offices and different handlers are doing it differently and for a while there was a huge post on here about it. At that time the official Swap notice just said that they had been notified of this and do the best that you can with your post office and carriers. This is just what happens when policy changes and the "rules" dont keep up with the needs.

Actually, about a month or so ago the usps headquarters issued all the offices these little clear plastic things with the sizes everything  needs to fit within the marked lines and/or fit through slots cut into them, or wrapped around these shape things. In a way it is sort of neat, but my postal girls are REALLY annoyed and refuse to use them since they cause more problems then they are worth with the customers. From what Sandy was telling me  they tried to do it the "official" way the first week or so and the headache didnt make it worth it.  

Jenn

• What I find the most irritating is having to go into the post office to get a rate which is always differnet with each postal worker! Since I quit shipping in the jewel cases and just wrap with the 2 printed papers along with the inserts.
• I have been placing 2- $.41 stamps and throwing them into the outside box at the P.O. I have not had one returned for postage due.
• Bring on the printable format...it's so much easier!  Thanks.

My experience has been pretty consistent with postal workers (this is Cambridge, MA).  If it is a CD, they say, it is rigid.  If it is rigid, it is a parcel.  Luckily one took pity on me last time I was there and used the large envelope rate (more than letter, less than parcel), but I would be willing to bet that next time I go in, it's going to be the parcel rate.

I actually had the postmaster in my PO, check with the higher ups.  It should be sent as a first class letter (usually 58 cents, unless it has a heavier book, or you put lots of padding), and a 17 cent surcharge, for non machinable.

I was also told thatthere are PO's who do it all manual, and therefore, only charge the 58 cents.  So, for a basic disc, with regular inserts, and a bit of padding 58 cents, or 75 cents.

I just returned from the PO sending my first set of CDs. I wanted to make sure they had the correct postage.

Each, cd, one sheet of paper (from SACD) and covered (enveloped) by a thin cardboard. They all measured 2 oz or less.

I put 75 cents on them. I asked, "Is this correct?"

"Yes. What's inside?"

"A cd." (said I naively)

"Oh, then it's a parcel and $1.30."

"No, I read up on this. It should be 75."

(back and forth)

"Well, I'll take it, but if it comes back, you're at fault."

"Okay."

So I should have said, "Oh, it's just a piece of plastic."? (technically true.)

I'm confused. We'll see if they arrive. Or will she say, "Psst. These...we can return these...they have CDS inside! She'll be sorry now!" <evil laugh>

It should NOT be large envelope.  Large envelope rate requires it be flexible.

Which is how they are getting confused.  If it's too large to be the first rate of first class, THEN if it's too thick or rigid it gets kicked up to parcel. 

But if it is small enough to be considered an envelope (not large envelope) then the rigidness just adds the surcharge.

The main issue I see with clerks is they think rigid==parcel, when that's not true if it's small enough to be a letter.  They skip the first step of the flow chart.